{"id":5420,"date":"2017-04-30T16:28:50","date_gmt":"2017-04-30T20:28:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/?p=5420"},"modified":"2017-04-30T21:11:18","modified_gmt":"2017-05-01T01:11:18","slug":"every-spacer-poops-an-interview-with-concept-artist-jeff-zugale","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/2017\/every-spacer-poops-an-interview-with-concept-artist-jeff-zugale","title":{"rendered":"Every Spacer Poops: an Interview with Concept Artist Jeff Zugale"},"content":{"rendered":"

Jeff Zugale is a concept artist best known for his work on video games like BioShock: The Collection<\/a> and Evolve<\/a>. He draws spaceships for a living, and I thought maybe we could talk about that. I figured you probably think that’s as cool as I do.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>So\u00a0\u00a0couple of weeks ago, the two of us sat down late at night to talk about art, politics, and science fiction over Skype, as well as his Spaceship-A-Day Patreon<\/a> project. We had a great time because those things are fun and great.<\/p>\n

Joshua A.C. Newman:<\/h3>\n

Jeff, your work has this density to it, a plausibility. It looks like someone built it, recognized the compromises of its manufacture, and accepted them. What’s your process to develop the fictional environment surrounding each piece?<\/p>\n

Jeff Zugale:<\/h3>\n

When I\u2019m doing a more what I\u2019d call \u201cserious\u201d piece, I think about it like an industrial designer. What is this thing, what\u2019s its purpose, what\u2019s it made out of, what\u2019s the power source, who built it, where when and why, the whole process. Even if it\u2019s a fantastical, non-buildable thing that\u2019s still where I start.<\/p>\n

\"\"
This postapocalyptic workbench is in way better shape than mine.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

There\u2019s usually only one or two things about a fictional object that are \u201cnon-existium\u201d, stuff that isn\u2019t likely to ever be real. The rest of it tends to be something understandable. Like, a flying car might be powered by some magical elf drive, but it still needs a door, some seats, a place to put your baggage.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Ha! Right. A Spinner needs to feel like a car.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Yes, exactly. I go all the way back to Roddenberry on this. Trek stuff needed to be believable, and look reasonable in the hands of the people using or operating it. There\u2019s a great bit in The Making of Star Trek where Gene talks about how when you\u2019re watching Dragnet, nobody\u2019s explaining how a police .38 works, it\u2019s just a revolver that the agent draws and points. They\u2019re not discussing the workings of the thing. They applied that to the phasers and everything else on Trek.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

In the original series, they often take apart a phaser just to use the hyperbatteries for something else. It’s curious that, in The Next Generation, problems were often solved with fictional particles. No one takes apart their tricorder or phaser to use the components. I suspect that’s the influence of a 20-years-on Roddenberry having a hard time coming to terms with solid state technologies and science that’s proving both weirder and more banal than what the earlier writers had been dealing with.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Sure yeah. I think we all got to eye-rolling about Tertiary Verteron Emitters after a few seasons of TNG \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Nonetheless, Trek, including in that period, is really good at implying a culture in its artifacts. How often are you given a cultural basis for the technology, and how often does your art direction say something like, “Space fighter,” and your develop the influences as you draw?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

It varies wildly. Sometimes I get a whole style bible and design documents that detail things out, sometimes it\u2019s \u201cwe need a thing that looks like this other thing but not so much that we could get in trouble\u201d, sometimes it\u2019s \u201cdude whatever just make it look cool”. And obviously not all my work is spaceships and sci-fi! You\u2019d be amazed at how many kitchens I\u2019ve drawn!<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Yeah, your Envirovember project was neat because it showed the variations necessary for habitation. A spaceship is a tool. An environment needs a place to shit.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Hahaha well we rarely get to see the bathrooms, although there\u2019s quite a few in BioShock!<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
A lived-in environment for BioShock: The Collection<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

I think it’s a weird squeamishness, frankly. Kitchens, bathrooms, all of that intimate, human stuff where we operate as animals on the biological and social level is what makes a place feel real. Deckard’s messy kitchen is one of the things that sells Blade Runner and it’s a rare moment when we get to see a bit of him as a person.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

I will be trying to do Envirovember and actually get through the whole month again this year.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
I love that this society has self-driving hovercars, and yet carries things by yoke.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

It’s a whole lot of drawing, that you do! I struggle to do three finished pieces a month.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

It\u2019s a well-worn groove. I\u2019ve been doing it since before I can even remember.\u00a0I have spent a lot of time working hard on the technical end of it. Still, it\u2019s just a thing my brain really likes to do.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

You seem to have a close relationship with the Prismacolor… or is it a digital simulation of one?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Oh, it\u2019s both. These sketch cards are all scribbled out with a 10% or 30% gray marker first. Very core, old school industrial design practice. Also advertising marker boards.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Yeah, that’s a technique I’ve always wanted to be able to do. Nilo Rodis-Jamero’s work on The Empire Strikes Back has never left the front of my brain.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Exactly. My dad gave me the original Star Wars Sketchbook for Xmas 1977 or 78, so my big influence there is Joe Johnston and Nilo. I didn\u2019t actually start drawing that way until much later, but that was always my target.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

I got the first sketchbook only later in life, but I still have my Empire one, deeply worn.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
This book and its companions was a big deal to everyone who didn’t just want to see Star Wars, but wanted to make<\/em> it.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve managed to keep all three of mine in pretty good shape! Hope to get Joe and Nilo to sign them someday.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Move fast! We keep losing artists!<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

bite your tongue<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

When you’re doing a complete composition around an artifact, what’s your process for balancing the needs of the beauty shot and the needs of the composition to give context?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Well that\u2019s always a tricky balancing act. When they say drawing\/illustration is fucking hard, that\u2019s one of the parts that\u2019s really fucking hard. What I\u2019ve learned is the idea of \u201creads\u201d in the art – first read, second read, third read, the things the viewer is going to look at in that order. The job is to make sure those reads are clear and in the right order.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

As in, visual hierarchy.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
The cover for R.J. McCann’s Heavy Drop<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Yes, right. There\u2019s an infinite number of methods to use and combine to guide the viewer\u2019s eye, so every piece is a combination of all of those. They all pretty much boil down to contrasting elements, though. The tried and true stuff like dark vs. light, size differences, heavier outlines.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

…Plus location on the page and what’s pointing to what.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Absolutely. It can be done in gross or subtle ways. A lot of it depends on the deadline.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Ha!<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Subtle stuff requires more time!<\/p>\n

Sometimes I\u2019m very conscious of how I\u2019m working on that, sometimes it\u2019s more freewheeling.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

My challenge to myself right now is to make complete pieces, and allow mistakes through in the interest of making more work as a route to better work.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Oh yeah, only way to go.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

As is said incessantly, there\u2019s no secret to this, only mileage.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

This is a weird thing to say, but I respect the fuck out of your Envirovember pieces where you changed your mind about perspective partway through… but it’s in pen, so you just keep rolling.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Hauling my luggage up that ramp would be worth it to fly around in that spaceplane.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Heh yeah, I see what\u2019s confusing – the roof on the pyramidal building shape. That\u2019s what we call in the business a \u201cmistake\u201d.<\/p>\n

…Although technically it could be a roof sloping away downwards<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Hell of a walk up with your luggage!<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Oh, yeah! That does look like a tunnel and ramp. OOPS. So there you go, errors like that are kind of inevitable on stuff that\u2019s done very quickly.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

But see, this is what I mean: you’re drawing what you’re imagining, and getting the ideas down despite not being able to represent them in a Euclidean space. And that means that the sketch is a success as a sketch. You’re not getting hung up on the wall-eyed vanishing points because fixing it is going to interfere with the flow of the ideas.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Hey as long as the client\u2019s happy with it, we\u2019re all good!
\nSketches like these are really quick, not even 20 minutes most of the time. Riffing out ideas fast is part and parcel of concept design<\/p>\n

You of course polish that stuff away in the final, but it’s an experiment with the ideas, not with vanishing points.<\/p>\n

I am<\/em> really trying to get the perspective right, though.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n
\"\"<\/a>
A raku cup, repaired with kintsukuroi. By Dosai, 19th c. From the Smithsonian collection<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

If you weren’t trying, it wouldn’t be interesting, nor would it stand out. It’s kintsukuroi, repaired with gold. It’s a tradition in Japanese ceramics: when a beautiful piece breaks, you grind gold into the lacquer that you use to repair it, highlighting the breakage.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Ah, neato.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

If they\u00a0worked hard enough, the artist could make the imperfection unnoticeable. But perhaps it’s more revealing of the nature of the thing to allow an imperfection to show. Similarly, the 20 minute sketch is a lot like the process of shod\u014d, where hesitation ruins the piece.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Precisely. It\u2019s better to have 15 or 20 cool ideas that aren\u2019t perfectly drawn than to have just one well-drawn idea.<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

When you’re building an environmental composition, how do you do your 15-20 preparatory sketches? What are you experimenting with?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

I don\u2019t normally do quite that many sketches for an environment. I\u2019d say I do 4 or 5 sketches similar to the Envirovember ones, or even smaller, to try to work things out. Again it depends on the brief. if it\u2019s something like \u201can interior transit station featuring this hero vehicle that\u2019s already been designed plus our main character\u201d then things are sort of cut and dried. If it\u2019s more like \u201clet\u2019s see some ideas on a futuristic looking bus station with some cool buses and taxis\u201d I\u2019ll do a lot more sketching. Also it depends on if it\u2019s a defined story moment or key frame. If yes, there\u2019s a lot of stuff that needs to go in.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

What will vary between the sketches?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Camera angle, overall design language, materials indication. Lighting, too. Size and shape of the space, I\u2019ll vary it from small and close to vast and echoing. If I\u2019m asked for, say, a tower in the mountains, there\u2019s endless variation to do on that, there\u2019s all different shape and size mountains, all kinds of tower architectural styles, daytime, nighttime, overcast, weather, you name it.
\n\u201cGive us a futuristic cop car\u201d, I could draw on that for weeks<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Ha ha! That sounds like a good client.
\n“Draw futuristic cop cars all week. $60k\/yr. Must like space stuff.”<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

LOL Yeah right? If only! But I\u2019d need more money!<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

“Part time.”<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

That\u2019d work. I\u2019d probably get bored though \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

“Dinosaur\/robot enthusiasm a plus for future projects.”<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

hehehe<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

I think this job description might be a trap.<\/p>\n

Do you think it terms of camera lens? Different focal lengths, for instance?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve learned to do that way more recently, in the last 5 years or so<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Imagine your Patreon<\/a> takes off to the degree that you need to work on it full time. What would you be drawing?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Boy wouldn\u2019t that be great! Well, it wouldn\u2019t just be drawing, it isn\u2019t just drawing now. I\u2019m doing the monthly wallpaper paintings, and I\u2019m working hard on making physical models of some of my ships.<\/p>\n

I would certainly be able to do more elaborate artwork. More books, too.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>
Jeff oldschool casts spaceship parts<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Do you have plans for more self-directed projects?<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

Always. I have so many. I\u2019ve got stuff I\u2019m building in the shop, 3D modeling and printing, music, too much. I\u2019ve put a lot of it down, and a lot of it on \u201cslow mode\u201d for a while as I focus on the Starshipwright<\/a> stuff.<\/p>\n

\"\"
Ultimately, Jeff makes art so he can make John Lithgow blow a gasket.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

I look forward to seeing what you make! I love watching your stuff come into existence.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

I just wish I could do it all faster,<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

Existence is suffering.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

For now it\u2019s the daily sketches, monthly wallpapers, and a collection book of the first run of SpaceshipADay that I\u2019m trying to get done for July, but probably will be done for the holiday season<\/p>\n

Joshua:<\/h3>\n

It’s truly amazing how much work it takes to make a thing, every. Single. Time.<\/p>\n

Jeff:<\/h3>\n

You got that right!
\nNevertheless, we persist.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jeff can be found on Twitter<\/a>\u00a0and at his Artstation<\/a> site. He’s entertaining contracts, if you need some spaces designed, or ships to occupy them, check out his prodigious portfolio!<\/h3>\n

This interview is one of those things that takes a huge amount of work every, single time. xenoglyph needs you to help!<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n

Always a big help is the shared universe known as Fifth World, a hopeful universe of fiction, art, and games about humans getting our shit together after global capitalism has burned out. Help them, too!<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n

\"The<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Jeff Zugale is a concept artist best known for his work on video games like BioShock: The Collection and Evolve. He draws spaceships for a living, and I thought maybe we could talk about that. I figured you probably think that’s as cool as I do.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":35,"featured_media":5443,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[140,109],"class_list":["post-5420","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-art","tag-concept-art","tag-interview"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5420","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/35"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5420"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5420\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5454,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5420\/revisions\/5454"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/5443"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5420"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5420"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/glyphpress.com\/talk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5420"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}