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[On Mighty Thews] Front and Back Cover

Post
Member

Simon C

posts 90

4:17 am April 15, 2010

Hi all!

Things are going really well with On Mighty Thews! When last we saw it, I was wrestling with the layout, trying to teach myself how to do this "design" stuff, and had just started thinking about the front cover.

Now I'm pretty much done with the text layout, I've got an artist working on the front cover (and it's nearly done), and I'm starting to think about publishing and stuff.  Exciting!

Here's what I want to figure out from this round of critique:

  • How's my cover looking? (I don't have a mock-up yet, but expect it soon!)
  • What should go on the back cover of the book?

The second is the question I want to look at right now.  I'm at sea! I don't know at all what should go back there! I guess some text about what the game's about and why you should buy it? Maybe just a picture of me giving a thumbs up and looking trustworthy?

Admin

joshua

posts 217

8:50 am April 15, 2010

(I don't have a mock-up yet, but expect it soon!)

Don't hold out on us, man!

The second is the question I want to look at right now.  I'm at sea! I don't know at all what should go back there! I guess some text about what the game's about and why you should buy it? Maybe just a picture of me giving a thumbs up and looking trustworthy?

Just like the front cover, find an example that you feel works really well. And consider this:

There's a process that people seem to go through when they first notice a book. These are my own observations, so consider these a hypothesis rather than a theory.

  1. They see broad, geometric shapes and points of high-contrast on the front or spine.
  2. They turn to face it and, if the cover contains imagery that's attractive to them, they'll pick it up.
  3. They'll turn it over to the back to confirm that it's about what they think it's about.
  4. They'll thumb through it to strengthen that confirmation.

You're talking about phase 3 right now. (Phase 4 has to do with your layout and internal illos, which you're also dealing with now.)

This has to do with bookshelves. Online, your book will probably be represented by a few hundred pixels to a side, so make sure it's bold and distinctive. The market requirements for Jongor, Thongor, and Krongor were different than they are for On Mighty Thews. Nonetheless, the main thing that has changed is that people will hear the name long before they see the cover, since they'll most likely hear about it through Facebook, RPGnet, Twitter, Quizmer, Pok!, Bobble, or whatever the kids are into these days.

If you're ready to share it, I'd love to see your text block, too.

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

mjbauer

posts 3

10:25 pm April 15, 2010

I agree with Joshua. There are technical criteria for putting a book cover together, but your best bet is finding a cover(s) you like, figuring out why you like it (or them) and applying it to your own cover. 

Here is a good place to start if you just want to see lots of (front) covers. Back covers are a little harder to find, but browsing your local bookstore may do the trick. Keep in mind that most books are designed for their "shelf presence" which may or may not be an issue for you depending on how and where you think people will be shopping for your book. If it's entirely online then you can basically keep the information on the cover itself to a minimum since the web page can contain all of the necessary information. 

Either way, let us know how it turns out.

Member

Simon C

posts 90

3:17 am April 16, 2010

I have practically zero idea what the back cover should say.

Here's a blind stab in the dark:

"A game of sorcery, sword fighting, sweat, and guts, On Mighty Thews will take you and a few friends on a journey through a blood-soaked and fantastical world of your own creation. This sword-and-sorcery roleplaying game can be played in a couple of hours, and requires no preparation or lengthy setup.  Adventure awaits!"

Corny?

Admin

joshua

posts 217

11:25 am April 16, 2010

and requires no preparation or lengthy setup.

Is there a positive way to say this?

Corny?

Dude. You're emulating pulp. Of course it's corny. What makes it effective though is that it's direct and active.

Oh, maybe:

A game of sorcery, sword fighting, sweat, and guts, On Mighty Thews will take

What happens if you take out the comma after "guts" and make it a floating phrase?

A game of sorcery, sword fighting, sweat, and guts

On Mighty Thews will take you and a few friends on a journey…

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

lumpley

posts 40

8:39 pm April 16, 2010

You could even go all the way:

Sorcery. Sword fighting. Sweat. Guts.

Take your friends on a blood-soaked and fantastical journey.

On Mighty Thews — adventure awaits!

Member

Simon C

posts 90

9:16 pm April 16, 2010

Post edited 1:17 am – April 17, 2010 by Simon C
Post edited 1:23 am – April 17, 2010 by Simon C


Here's a mock-up of my cover.  I'm still in discussions with the artist, so let me know if you have questions about the image.  Does it look like she's rowing a canoe?

Vincent, I like your suggestion! I'm worried though that it doesn't say anywhere on the front or back that it's a game.  Is that a problem?

Member

lumpley

posts 40

9:54 am April 17, 2010

A lizard canoe!

Nah, if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't've thought that.

I don't know whether it matters if you say "a game" on your cover. I tend to say it on mine, in some form or other.

Admin

joshua

posts 217

5:03 pm April 17, 2010

Your mom's a lizard canoe.

I think it's probably good to say that it's a game.

What does your spine look like?

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

Simon C

posts 90

5:31 pm April 17, 2010

Post edited 11:49 pm – April 17, 2010 by Simon C


The book's about 50 pages, so there's not much of a spine.  I'm not sure what I can do with it at that size.

So, saying it's a game.  Should I do that on the front of the back?

On the front I could add “a game by” to my name down the bottom, or else I could change the text at the top.

On the back I could easily add it in somewhere.  It does seem to steal some of the punch though.

Admin

joshua

posts 217

2:16 pm April 18, 2010

Where do you think it will have the greatest punch?

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

Dan Maruschak

Eugene, OR

posts 30

2:29 pm April 18, 2010

(I have zero cover-design experience, and not much experience with the genre either, so my comments may be completely off-base)

I've got a bit of cognitive dissonance going on with your cover image and your title. I don't dislike the art, but the woman doesn't scream "mighty thews" to me. I would probably end up saying to myself, "I don't get it, is the lizard supposed to be the one with the mighty thews?"

I'm having trouble with the punctuation of the text above the title, too. That hyphen/dash between "savagery" and "and" is very confusing to me. I can't figure out if you want me to pause there or what. The line break is causing trouble for me, too — I want to end the phrase with "mortal peril", but then I get to the next line and it looks like I'm supposed to continue the thought. It's like I'm mentally stumbling over my words.

Those are my nit-picky observations of what I would think upon seeing your cover.

Member

Simon C

posts 90

2:58 am April 19, 2010

Post edited 7:39 am – April 19, 2010 by Simon C


Here's a mockup of the back. Just throwing ideas around. I've made a texture for the back that kind of matches the background of the image on the front. I dunno if that's a good idea, but plain black seemed too stark. I'm flexible on that though.

EDIT: Joshua, you said somewhere else that it's a good idea to know who I'm selling to.  Here's what I reckon, in order of who I think it's best suited to.

a) People who already buy and play indie rpgs, looking for something light and fun.

b) People who really like sword-and-sorcery stories and RPGs.

c) People who really like sord-and-sorcery stories, who might like RPGs.

Member

mjbauer

posts 3

1:25 pm April 19, 2010

One of the hardest things in book cover design is integrating the title and other text with the cover image and making it look like they go together. I think that you could improve the cohesiveness of your cover a bit. Try out some different fonts, the font should not only be appropriate for the title of the game (the words should look good in the font you choose) but it should mirror the style of the illustration. You could also improve the relationship between the text and the image. Try making the image a bit smaller to give your title some breathing room.

Did you try some different options for layout: bigger text, smaller text, different fonts, stacking the title, changing the text color, off-centering the title, using a border around the image, etc.? Playing around with it might give you a solution that you like that you didn't expect.

 pathfinder cover

I think the Pathfinder book does a pretty good job at achieving a balance between image and text (and it's not too dissimilar from your cover). The title uses angular text that mirrors the angles in of the dragon. And even though the text uses a border that keeps it visually separate from the image the placement of the text frames the image nicely and the text color is derived from the image making it look more cohesive.

Admin

joshua

posts 217

5:17 pm April 22, 2010

I think your challenge is pretty big: you want your character to be self-possessedly sexy without being sexualized. She has to be the boss of her, so much so that sex for her is just one of her powers.

The problem is, she doesn't  have any now. She's deliberately and chastely covered up, which doesn't fit the genre, nor does it speak of personal, heroic, and self-confident power.

Have you tried a couple of different ways of dressing the character?

Likewise, I'd suggest that you try a bunch of cover compositions and post your favorite two or three here.

Regarding the back, I think you might want to experiment with words being different sizes or weights. You might also want to consider the width of the text column and where you want it to be.

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

Simon C

posts 90

11:36 pm April 22, 2010

Regarding the picture, that's pretty set in stone now.  I had a LONG back and forth with the artist trying to get a dynamic pose and a powerful-looking figure. What you see is the last in a long line of radically different figures.  I take your point, but I think I'm happy with where it's ended up.

The challenge with reorganising text on the front cover is that there's not a lot of space to fit text around the image. I'll try a few different things and show you what I've got.

The back cover feels like a huge blank sheet to me.  There's nothing constraining it so I feel really lost. I'd love to have some examples of back covers from the genre I'm emulating.

Admin

joshua

posts 217

11:46 pm April 22, 2010

I take your point, but I think I'm happy with where it's ended up.

OK!

The challenge with reorganising text on the front cover is that there's not a lot of space to fit text around the image. I'll try a few different things and show you what I've got.

Don't forget to play with the scale of the image. Maybe you can shrink it to get the space you need, or blow it up asymmetrically (I'd scale it up from the left) and find some unexpected negative space.

The back cover feels like a huge blank sheet to me.  There's nothing constraining it so I feel really lost. I'd love to have some examples of back covers from the genre I'm emulating.

Surely you've got a couple around if you like the genre this much. And if not, they can't be too terribly expensive.

I expect they're like the SF covers of the day. Lemme see what I've got…

Wow. Those are some boring-ass back covers. Certainly not worth taking all that shit off the scanner for.

I think my suggestion is this: make a couple of objects: the motto, the copy, and, I dunno, a box for a quote or something. Something evocative. Then try different ways to combine those objects.

Joshua A.C. Newman

Member

Simon C

posts 90

12:02 am April 23, 2010

Cool. Can do. How do you feel about the blotchy blurry background-thing I made?

Member

Simon C

posts 90

10:31 pm April 23, 2010

Ok, here are three new versions of the front cover. There are things I like and things I hate about all of them.

This one as well as shifting around the text, I messed with the levels to make the picture a bit more intense. Too much?

I hate the yellow in this one, but white disappeared into the picture. I could do some design stuff to make the text more apparent. There's something kinda classy about it though.

I used a very different style of typeface for this one. It's nice and punchy, but to fit it in I had to shrink the image and invent some extra white space. It looks a bit shit at the moment, but I could do a better job of that with more time.

I'd appreciate people's thoughts.

Micah, sorry I haven't responded to your comments.  They're useful!

Cheers,

Simon

Member

mjbauer

posts 3

1:25 am April 24, 2010

I'm really liking your first option. The type looks so much better. It looks like it belongs where you've placed it and the way you've fit the title words together makes it feel like a cohesive unit. I still think the title (and your name) is pushed a bit too close to the edge, but creating more image area (as you mentioned) is a pain.

You will probably want to create some extra image area anyway because when a printer crops a page (or cover) there can be as much as 1/8 inch (3 mm) drift from where you intend the edge to be (in either direction). So you will want extra image area so that you don't end up with a white edge. That's also the reason that you don't want text to get too close to the bottom, top or fore-edge of the book, since you could potentially lose some of that space and end up with the text dangling awkwardly off an edge.

I definitely like the saturated colors better too, but you did push it a bit too far. If you toned it down a little I think it would be perfect.

Over-all it's a big improvement. Well done.

Just a random thought, you might want to look into adding a light texture to the cover, it would be a good way to tie the back and front together and may add some visual interest. Maybe not, but it wouldn't hurt to try a few out.


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