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Member | walkerp Montréal posts 5 4:40 pm October 19, 2009
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Hey Josh, thanks for inviting me to your forum. I've been reading the threads here and it seems like a productive structure you've set up here. I would be using it primarily to improve my visual design skills (or to create them from scratch to be honest) rather than any rules design or text editing (though if someone is kind enough to make such an effort, I would listen unless I am specifically truly done).
But I really am a beginner. I've laid out several posters and flyers in InDesign and one of my best friends is a big design geek, so I've gotten the religion. But I've never created an actual document with multiple pages and a consistent thematic design structure. I feel kind of stymied right from the start about coming up with chapter headers, choosing typefaces, deciding on sizes and spacings.
Can you recommend either some good beginners tutorial that address the basic layout procedures for building the master pages for a short document (say 24 pages or so) from the technical (i.e. how to do it in InDesign) and design perspectives.
Or, if such a thing exists, a basic existing InDesign template that I could then flow my text into and start working from there.
Or if I'm completely off track, some other approach for a beginner.
My goal is to have a document in a good enough form to present back here on November 30th. The content is a "module" for Spirit of the Century.
Thanks!
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My real name is Conan but I'd really prefer it not be used online for reasons nothing other than identity security.
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Admin
| joshua posts 217 11:30 am October 26, 2009
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Son of a fuck. Forum just ate my detailed and thoughtful post.
OK, in list form.
- Get The Elements of Typographic Style and read it. It's fun. Skip around in it if you must, and refer to it often. It's a beautiful book about making beautiful books.
- Get Geometry of Design. It goes into more detail than Bringhurst does in Elements about its particular topic.
- Find a book that you think is laid out carefully. I recommend anything by Luke Crane if you want a game book. If you're making a module for SotC, you might want to use it as your model. Measure stuff: margins and the widths of text blocks; the amount of space between lines compared to the size of the text in them; The size of chapter headers. Really observe it. Then copy it. Don't worry about being a knockoff. By the time you change things to fit your particular requirements, you'll have changed a lot of stuff. Fonts will be different, page sizes will be different. But because you've read the Elements and Geometry, you'll know how to fiddle with them meaningfully.
- I look forward to seeing what you're working on! Ask questions and be ready to answer (or at least listen to) questions about your decisions.
So, that's the design stuff. For technical things, I find that the InDesign online help is extraordinarily good. But it's way to big to just start at the beginning. Here are the concepts you need:
- Master pages are the reason you don't have to set your margins and columns every time. You make a master page, then make pages deviate from it, for example by having text in them. You can put a "page number" marker on a master page and your pages will be dynamically numbered. You can also have several master pages. Like, you'll want a regular text page with margins, columns, and a page number. You might have a chapter heading page, with a big chapter title halfway down the page with the text starting below it. You might have an illustration page with a space for a caption.
- Paragraph styles are how you set most of your type options. You'll probably want to set [Normal] to be something like Garamond Pro 9pt.Then you can make the styles cascade; that is, you can base a style called chapter head on [Normal] so it's also in Garamond Pro, but you can change the size to 32pt and color it red. Or maybe you have Sidebar that is 7pt and has little leading (space between lines, pronounced like the metal, not the verb).
- Character styles are for modifying things like a single word or character. Make them semantic, not aesthetic. So you want to have a character style called emphasis that might be italic and scaled up 10% (since italic text is often a little bit smaller). You might have book title that is underlined. When you use emphasis within a [Normal] text block, it will be Garamond Pro 9.9pt italic. When you use it in Sidebar, it'll be 7.7pt italic with thin leading.
Come back and ask questions! I'm happy to help. It's particularly easy to do things over when you've used master pages and styles well, so don't be afraid to try things out.
I look forward to seeing what you're working on!
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Member | walkerp Montréal posts 5 10:01 pm November 5, 2009
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Thanks for the advice. Very helpful.
I've got the document set up, Master pages are set up (though I'm really only using one; the document is 16 pages), paragraph styles exist for everything and are ordered, page numbering is in. I have a solid idea for the overall shape and arrangement of things that I have implemented to some satisfaction (I'm going to be asking for the Geometry of Design for xmas).
My trouble now is typefaces. I have learned the basic principle of sans serif for headers and serif for text. I was able to make an elegant relationship between the chapter header, the sub-header and the body text using that classic relationship. The problem is it looks too modern. It's very clean, slick. I want something that says classical music in the 30s with a little pulp sprinkled on it.
Can I blow up a serif face and use it as a header? Randomly, I found Cochin and it does a good job. I put Knockout under it. I don't know, it seems like I've got a bunch of typefaces fighting for attention on the page. Maybe I'm just looking at it too closely.
It's a long time before the deadline, so maybe I shouldn't get into too many aesthetic choices at this point. So let me just ask more generally what is some general advice for typefaces, choosing the right ones for the look and theme you are going for and putting several different typefaces together. Can there be too many?
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My real name is Conan but I'd really prefer it not be used online for reasons nothing other than identity security.
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Admin
| joshua posts 217 2:25 pm November 6, 2009
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Sure, serifs as headers are just fine, assuming that they look and feel good. These are rules of thumb, just like red or white wine at a meal. Lamb and white wine are a good combination, for instance.
Cochin is a nice font. But I don't think you want more than two fonts in a project, really. You're noticing, yourself, what doesn't work. It's just busy. Everything competes for your attention, which means it will go elsewhere.
When in doubt, simplify.
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Member | walkerp Montréal posts 5 3:56 pm November 6, 2009
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But I have so much to say! 
Okay, discipline. That is the kind of structure that will prove to be very helpful. A clarification. When you say two fonts, can I use multiple variations of a given typeface, like lighter or heavier, condensed or less condensed and so on to distinguish headers, sub-headers, sub-sub-headers, etc.?
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My real name is Conan but I'd really prefer it not be used online for reasons nothing other than identity security.
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Admin
| joshua posts 217 4:05 pm November 6, 2009
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Ugh. I meant two typefaces. A serif and a sans, for instance. If you need a bold serif, go at it.
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